The much awaited Naina Lal Kidwai interview
I finally ended up on a cozy couch in a Mumbai hotel, with Naina Lal Kidwai’s warm smile putting me at ease almost instantly
After an interview that was rescheduled seven times, I finally ended up on a cozy couch in a Mumbai hotel, with Naina Lal Kidwai’s warm smile putting me at ease almost instantly.
‘It is about the whole support system that a woman needs... in making her a winner’
Interviewing Naina Lal Kidwai is intimidating. But Naina the person is far more memorable for her spirit and energy. And through her book, 30 Women In Power Their Voices, Their Stories (released in 2015), she tried to ensure that stories of women in power reach other women in the corporate space and more importantly, their parents too. “I knew so many women with interesting leadership stories but you’d never come across their names. I picked women across industries, who, like me, believed it was important that their stories, vision and leadership advice reaches others. I’m not surprised that a lot of young women in companies are most excited. But I’ve been quite struck by how many guys have read it. They’ve come up and said they’re trying to understand their wives or daughters better through the book. Many fathers have bought the book for their daughters. I also want parents and teachers to read it since they are major influencing factors in our lives. For me, the book is beyond just the women—it is about the whole support system that a woman needs—parents, teachers, husbands—and their role in making her a winner,” she adds.
“I think as long as the ambition is not ambition at all costs; it’s a great driver for ensuring that you can get the best out of yourself.”
I was curious to know how she fared as an interviewer since she has always been on the other side of the table and asking questions is tougher than giving answers! “Oh, there was a fair amount of persuasion, coercion and making people feel ashamed for saying yes and not meeting the deadline that was involved! (laughs) Many of them were first time writers. At least half a dozen threw their hands up halfway through and said, ‘I can’t do it’. Initially, quite a few talked mostly about their company, so I had to make them focus on themselves. Also, I had to get them to give advice—in each chapter, more than half of the essay is on learnings and advice. I had a big debate with the publishers as they thought it gave it a sort of a textbook flavour but that’s what I wanted. I wanted people to be able to skim through the book if they wanted and still learn from it.”
‘A woman in your everyday life can be a real source of inspiration.’
Who was her inspiration, though? “I entered the workplace in 1982. I can’t say I found role models at all in the work environment. But influences at home played a major role. My mother had a strong value system that has shaped me. My younger sister was very driven in terms of her achievements and she went on to be one of India’s best known golfer. People at my workplace also served as great support systems. In 1993, when Mumbai was in flames, we had given out strict instructions to people that they should not come to work. I was heading retail banking at Standard Chartered then and knew I had to be at work. When I reached office, I saw my executive assistant there. When I asked her why, she said, ‘I just felt I needed to be here if I could make it’. She left her three-year-old child with a neighbour because her help hadn’t shown up, and came on local trains that were hardly functioning and had been burnt three days earlier. When you see such women you think, ‘Who am I to even think twice about coming to work when I am driving a car and staying much closer?’ A woman in your everyday life can be a real source of inspiration.”
‘You don’t start by thinking you could be CEO.’
I asked her about Sheryl Sandberg’s Lean In that she wrote the foreword for. Sheryl speaks of how ambition in men is valued as dynamic and attractive, while in women it is ruthless and unnatural! “I think as long as the ambition is not ambition at all costs; it’s a great driver for ensuring that you can get the best out of yourself. You don’t start by thinking you could be CEO. When you join, you only see the next two steps ahead of you and you think well, maybe I can get there. If you’re ambitious, and I think you’ll see that trait in all the women in the book, you begin to find the traits that you want to embrace and that keeps you going. Benchmarking yourself against people who have got to certain positions and imagining why you too could be there helps. Self confidence, always looking around, and ambition keep driving you forward.”
She recounts how this attitude became inculcated in her. “I would often top my class and my father would say, ‘The fact that you’ve come first is not important. Have you done your best? If you do your best and still don’t come first, it’s good enough.’ It gave me a different perspective on things because then you’re not competing against the world, you’re competing against yourself. So the qualities that come with that are far more constructive, rather than trying to destroy others, as you look to move ahead.”
‘I think women are often their own glass ceilings.’
Naina was one of the first women to be hired by PwC and in ways more than one she has broken the glass ceiling in the corporate cosmos. “I think women are often their own glass ceilings. PwC said they don’t hire women, but it just needed a little nudge and it happened. I don’t how many women even applied earlier or if they just said, ‘Oh, they don’t hire women so we won’t even try’.
“However, discrimination does take place against women on many instances and many have spoken about it in the book as well. Lawyers like Zia Modi say they had to struggle to be noticed, even if they belonged to some of the big legal families. Zia had to prove her mettle in arguing cases in court.”
Sometimes, it is about that little bit of push and you find you’re actually pushing against an open door. However, discrimination does take place against women on many instances and many have spoken about it in the book as well. Lawyers like Zia Modi say they had to struggle to be noticed, even if they belonged to some of the big legal families. Zia had to prove her mettle in arguing cases in court.”
I ask her what she made of Indra Nooyi’s statement that women can’t have it all. She corrects me gently with “Actually, if you see the exact wording, she posed it more like a question, ‘or can they?’ She doesn’t make a categorical statement, but she recognizes that there are a lot of balancing factors that need to be taken care of. I really do also define it as the crystal balls which you want to keep in the air—your work and your family are crystal, so there’s no way you can let either drop. So the thing that you do give up is the ‘me’ time. I refer to it as a rubber ball, because that’s the thing you sort of allow to bounce away. So that’s what I felt she implied by not having it all.”
To be continued…